Questions & Answers

closed [Completed 3.5] Undo on the faders

+491 votes
2,855 views
asked Dec 2, 2015 in Studio One 3 Feature Requests by snipeyoung (320 points)
closed May 23 by LMike
A simple undo on the faders when you mover the wrong fader by mistake or you bump the fader with you mouse by mistake there is no way to undo this once a fader moves its THERE
closed with the note: Full undo functionailty

24 Answers

+5 votes
answered Apr 10 by AlexTinsley (373,370 points)
selected Apr 12 by AlexTinsley
 
Best answer

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+42 votes
answered Dec 22, 2015 by Scoox (6,360 points)
edited Dec 22, 2015 by Scoox

I'm curious... where are all the "undo haters"??? I've posted this FR many times before and each time I am confronted with a tsunami of rejection and disapproval, claiming that "undo is perfect as it is" and so on, which of course is completely ridiculous because anybody who thinks rationally knows that comprehensive undo encourages experimentation since it's always possible to go back. Therefore, if I could up-vote this FR 1,000 times I would. Furthermore, I want to add to this FR because I feel it completely fails to address the key issue here, whic his that...

IN A DAW, IT SHOULD BE POSSIBLE TO UNDO ANYTHING THAT AFFECTS THE SOUND

That means, in addition to what S1 is currently able to undo, it should also be able to undo the following:

  • Add/remove/move FX
  • Add/remove/move insert
  • Add/remove/move instruments
  • Add/remove/move mixer channels (including Bus and FX channels)
  • Add/remove mixer sends
  • Mixer channel destination changes
  • Any mixer tweaks (volume, pan, mute, solo, send level, send pre/post fader switch, etc, basically everything)
  • Any plugin parameter tweaks, including plugin Bypass button
  • I/O selection operations (change instrument output, change MIDI channel, audio/MIDI input selection, etc)
  • Channel Routing window (add/remove splitter, add/remove/move plugin)
  • Channel Editor assignments to knobs
  • Etc... I'm sure there are more

In addition, also allow undoing the following which don't affect sound:

  • Rename plugins (instruments and FX)
  • Rename mixer channels
  • Rename modules in Routing window (e.g. undo rename splitters and plugins), although currently splitters cannot be renamed anyway (this is a matter for another discussion)

In the preferences there could be settings to allow users to select what's included in undo, to cater to everyone's personal preferences. For example, some users may not want to include mixer tweaks, etc.

Regarding undo for add/remove/move mixer channels, it is possible to undo add/remove/move tracks in the arrange view, so IMO this should also be possible in the mixer.

In addition, each plugin could have its own undo, separate from the main undo, to prevent plugin tweaks cluttering the main undo history. Since plugins are self-contained, giving each plugin it's own undo history makes a lot of sense IMO. This way if you delete a plugin you also delete it's undo history, much easier than "cleaning up" any orphan actions from the main undo history.

commented Dec 24, 2015 by jpettit (10,100 points)
Good points.
The legitimate argument against it is due to the fact that most "undo schemes" are purely sequential history, so some do not want to 100% backtrack to a previous error.  
It would be cool to talk about ways around that.
Like:
Separate history ques for menu driven option vs mixer activities.

I personally believe the interest in a mixer undo is driven by the lack of a  automixer snapshot/scene capability. ( which would include a roll back to previous saves)
.
+6 votes
answered Dec 12, 2016 by Funkybot (15,340 points)
Here's a look at Cubase's rather elegant approach just released in Cubase 9:

+3 votes
answered May 2, 2016 by chgraham (380 points)
The first issue I ran into... irritating and troublesome.

With +143 votes, as I write, I certainly hope Studio One 3 users get proper Undo functionality in the next release: at least one much less expensive DAW has had this for a long time.
+2 votes
answered Dec 2, 2015 by denisarchfx (560 points)
+1 for this feature
+2 votes
answered Dec 3, 2015 by WyntaSumma (650 points)
Yes yes good idea. Similar to Reason 8!
+2 votes
answered Dec 22, 2015 by blakebunzel (270 points)
THIS WOULD BE AMAZING!!!!!!!
+2 votes
answered Dec 23, 2015 by Toth (210 points)
The lack of a universal undo still baffles me.
+2 votes
answered Jan 3, 2016 by Scoox (6,360 points)
edited Jan 3, 2016 by Scoox

So basically mixer snapshots are really whole project snapshots? Otherwise I can't see how this could be implemented without making some kind of compromise. I don't think mixer states would achieve what most people have in mind, which is to "travel back in time to a previous sonic state". There are just too many variables, for example, would FX parameters be recalled too? Would any deleted sends be created and adjusted again? What about parameter automation? What if media clips have been moved, stretched or deleted? In the end it all goes back to the "Save New Version..." command.

My idea of mixer snapshots focuses on restoring existing parameter values, whilst ignoring any deleted and new parameters:

  • The purpose of mixer snapshots is to recall the following only:
    • Volume
    • Pan
    • Mute, Solo
    • Send levels
    • Send pre-fader on/off switch
    • Send enabled/disabled switch
    • Plugin parameters
    • Plugin enagled/disabled switch
    • Plugin bypass switch
    • FX insert order
    • FX and instrument plugins parameters
  • The following are not stored in a mixer snapshot:
    • Mixer window size
    • Automation
    • Track, channel and send order (since this does not affect sound)
    • etc
  • When more comprehensive mix state recall is needed, use "Save New Version..." instead.
  • Recalling a mixer snapshot appears as a single action in the undo history.
  • Each mixer channel, send and plugin instance has an automatically generated ID. This ID is not visible to the user as it's only used internally by S1 for referencing. S1 then uses these IDs to identify the various elements of mix and restore parameters accordingly. This allows a mixer snapshot to be loaded into different versions of the same song, since the IDs would be the same.
  • Any channels, sends and plugins deleted after a snapshot was taken are simply ignored (they don't get re-added). Likewise, any channels, sends and plugins created after a snapshot was taken are left untouched, or perhaps optionally muted (channel), bypassed (plugin) and disabled (send). Loading a snapshot from another project has no effect since all the IDs would be different.
  • Mixer snapshots are stored as individual files, one file per snapshot, so that they can be shared across different versions of the same project
  • Mixer snapshots are read-only, i.e. they cannot be "edited". This means that, if S1 finds a channel no longer exists when a snapshot is recalled, it doesn't try to update the snapshot to remove the data related to the missing channel: it simply skips it and leaves it untouched.
commented Jan 7, 2016 by jpettit (10,100 points)
No mixer scenes are just Mixer data.
 The scenes or snapshots save everything that would normally be saved in a song save that have to do with the mixer.
+1 vote
answered Dec 2, 2015 by adrianciuplea (720 points)
Yes, that would be awesome to have. Sometimes the mouse scroll wheel can move a fader in console view and you're in the dark about the amount of change.
+1 vote
answered Dec 24, 2015 by Scoox (6,360 points)

There is a problem with separate history queues:

Separate undo history for plugins is OK; because a plugin is a separate program: you remove the plugin and its undo history goes with it. But in the mixer, if you move a fader and then delete the associated track, you can no longer undo the fader move.

Regarding mixer snapshots, I've never used a DAW that had this feature and I am very curious, how does a DAW deal with cases like the following?:

  1. Create mixer snapshot
  2. Delete some channels, add some other channels
  3. Restore snapshot
commented Jan 3, 2016 by jpettit (10,100 points)
Generally speaking the mixer scenes are just saves for the mixer,  So the restore would undo the delete and the add in your example.

They could create a separate  history queue for this functionality which would allow an undo since the lat scene.
asked Jan 3, 2016 in Studio One 3 by Scoox (6,360 points)
edited Jan 3, 2016 by Scoox
How do reply to an answer inside an existing answer?
0 votes
answered Dec 3, 2015 by federicosilva (240 points)
This is a must have feature. Please add it on the next release.
0 votes
answered Dec 22, 2015 by Scoox (6,360 points)
Also note that, by keeping plugin undo separate from the main undo, if for some reason a particular plugin does not support undo or has its own built-in undo function, you don't need to worry about any conflicts with the main undo, since the plugin is fully self-contained.

In short, the main undo includes everything except plugins.
0 votes
answered Feb 26, 2016 by jpettit (10,100 points)
A start of a conversation in the forum.

https://forums.presonus.com/viewtopic.php?f=213&t=16598
0 votes
answered Mar 15, 2016 by Zbest56Dubstep (2,160 points)
If people are so against this feature, why not make it an option in the preferences?
0 votes
answered Apr 30, 2016 by joshvoyles (280 points)
It would just be a nice start if the mouse wheel didn't adjust the fader. (Or at least make it so we can disable it.)
0 votes
answered May 18, 2016 by Timm United (240 points)
I think mixer snapshots are a better idea... as you dont want mixer undo's accidentally messing up your editing work. I think these two should be separated. so the situation as it is right now + mixer snapshots would be ideal imho
0 votes
answered Oct 12, 2016 by MarkyGoldstein (5,520 points)
The entire mixer needs undo. In not just this DAW, but in all all DAWs.

Especially unloading insert fx should be undoable, including all settings in the plugin. This might need an update such as VST4.
0 votes
answered Oct 24, 2016 by rickycooke (2,940 points)
Please please add this. Definitely essential for those of us trying to make the full transition over from Pro Tools.
0 votes
answered Dec 10, 2016 by shanabit (460 points)
Whatever UNDO shows up in S1,  PLEASE make sure the HISTORY is SAVED with the SONG/PROJECT.   Steinbug just added undo to the mixer in C9 but you cant save it at all,   worthless
0 votes
answered Jan 13 by suparngupta (330 points)
I was recently looking at Cubase 9 (after switching from Cubase 8 to S3) and it looks like they have nailed this feature. I am not looking for undoing each fader. If I could take a snapshot of my faders and restore ALL of them back to the position they were in a snapshot, that alone is enough for me.
0 votes
answered Apr 30 by musicmould (1,490 points)
edited Apr 30 by musicmould
Undo fader moves might not be the 1st on my "undo wish list" but generally I feel the undo feature is lacking.

I basically agree with Scoox list of what you should be able to undo. I come from Logic Pro X where you can undo most stuff and I have recently done work in Cubase 9 and it feels like Steinberg has really got it right.
0 votes
answered May 9 by adamhajrula (160 points)
This drives me nuts on a daily basis. Nobody has brought up my argument against snapshots. Every accidental fader move or effect adjustment can't be fixed unless you just saved it. Not OK. I'm baffled by the lack of a comprehensive undo feature. For a professional daw, this makes it look half finished. Like every release is a beta. Shouldn't have taken nearly this long to implement.
–6 votes
answered Mar 14, 2016 by jpettit (10,100 points)

I believe that many of the desires to have mixer undo would be satisfied with the more eloquent solution.

Especially if it was as easy as  a hotkey to save and a hotkey to roll back.

 

...