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Two StudioLive 32 Series III's Sharing Inputs via AVB

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asked Feb 27 in StudioLive Series III by pauldiem (1,850 points)
We have two Studiolive 32 Series III consoles connected via AVB. We have analog inputs coming into both consoles. We share those inputs via AVB. Ideally each console would have control over the preamp gains for the inputs coming directly into it and digital gain control over the input coming into it via AVB. Is this possible?

In the Universal Control Network Settings panel, there is a Stagebox Setup area. The remote console is listed with settings for Mode and Preamp Permissions. For mode, there are Stand-alone and Monitor Mixer options. With Monitor Mixer mode selected, the console has no main mix so that's not an option.

For Preamp Permissions, there are All and Studiolive 32 options. With All selected, both consoles have control the preamp gains of all inputs on both boards. The major problem with this is that the desired gain settings must be saved under our standard scene on both consoles otherwise a recall on one will overwrite the gain settings on the other.

With Studiolive 32 selected for Preamp Permissions, the setup does exactly what we want only backwards. The console into which an analog input is directly connected has a digital gain and the console which is receiving the inputs via AVB has the preamp gain (it also has the option to enable Gain Compensation).

This doesn't seem to make any sense so I thinking we must be doing something wrong.

8 Answers

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answered Mar 4 by danielsievert (10,380 points)
selected Mar 5 by pauldiem
 
Best answer

Hi,

I've been doing some more tests on this and it appears that if one mixer's preamp permissions are set to itself and the other mixer is set to "All" then the "All" mixer will have the Gain Comp and the mixer with local permissions will have the preamp control, regardless of which way the signal is being sent. 

The downside of this is that preamp permissions are global on a mixer.  They apply to all channels at once so as I'm aware you won't be able to have analog inputs on each mixer and choose which way the remote preamp control goes.

If both mixers are set to their own local permissions then both will show Gain Comp with no access at all to the analog mic gain.  If both mixers are set to "All" then both mixers will show the analog preamp gain with no Gain Comp control.

I hope that helps.

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answered Feb 28 by danielsievert (10,380 points)
Hi,

From what you've described it sounds as though you're trying to input both analog and network audio into mixer channels simultaneously?  Channels can only accept one audio source; Analog, Network (AVB), USB or SD Card.

If you connect two mixers together via AVB and set them to Monitor Mixer or Stage Box modes then one mixer becomes the analog input source and it's mic input signals are fed to the other mixer (FOH) via AVB. The mixer receiving AVB then remotely controls the microphone inputs of the analog source mixer.  

So again, on the mixer receiving AVB signals you can't then additionally input analog signals into its channels.  You can only choose between the analog and network sources.
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answered Feb 28 by pauldiem (1,850 points)
We have some analog inputs on each mixer but those inputs are on different channels. For example, analog inputs A, B and C come into mixer M1 with channels 1, 2 and 3 set to analog inputs A, B and C. Analog inputs D, E and F come into mixer M2 with channels 4, 5 and 6 set to analog inputs D, E and F. On M1, channels 4, 5 and 6 are set to network inputs 4, 5 and 6. On M2, channels 1, 2 and 3 are set to network inputs 1, 2 and 3. In the AVB setup, M1 has AVB channels 1-8 set to M2 AVB 1-8 and M2 has AVB channels 1-8 set to M1 AVB 1-8.
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answered Feb 28 by danielsievert (10,380 points)
OK, you'll need to decide whether remote preamp control or Main Output is more important to you.  On a mixer that is set to Monitor Mixer mode you will lose the main output.  However, Monitor Mixer mode allows for remote preamp control. (You might have to use a stereo-linked AUX send to replace the Main Out.)

I've now run a test on my own mixers with both in Monitor Mixer mode.  Both are set to "All" preamp permissions and both are listening to "Network Stream" as their Network Clock (in Device Setting tab).

In this setup I had an analog mic input on both  Mixer1-Channel1 and Mixer2-Channel2.   

Mixer1-Channel1 was set to Analog source so it was receiving signal from its own mic input.  I then had Mixer1-Channel2 set to Network so it was sourcing its input from Mixer2-Channel2 mic input.

Remote preamp control prioritises the mixer that is providing the analog input on that AVB channel.  So in this case Mixer1-Channel2 controlled or matched the preamp gain for Mixer2-Channel2.

Important to note that Digital Patching allows you to place your input sources wherever you need to on your mixer channels.  Also by using the "Digital Send Source: Digital / Analog"  in the Routing tab of a channel, you can send be sending signal off that channel's preamp whilst sourcing audio from a different network channel source.  Effectively AVB becomes an insert send/return where signal can be sent off the preamp to an external network destination and then returned into that channel from a external network source.
0 votes
answered Feb 28 by pauldiem (1,850 points)
We really don't want remote preamp control. What we want is local preamp control with remote digital gain control. We want the mixer that has the analog input to be able to control the preamp gain. We want the remote mixer that's receiving the AVB channel to be able to adjust the gain received. I've read that with Gain Compensation on the remote mixer, the mixer will automatically adjust the received gain +/- 15dB when the main console adjust the preamp gain. That would be ideal. Unfortunately, I can't seem to get that to work. Like I said in the original question, when we set it up in Standalone mode with Studiolive 32 Preamp Permissions, the mixer that has the analog input has digital gain and the remote mixer has preamp gain which seems backwards.
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answered Mar 5 by jonnydoyle (220,320 points)
Aside from the advice given you need to review the AVB guide about this.

Link: https://pae-web.presonusmusic.com/downloads/products/pdf/StudioLive_Series_III_AVB_Networking_Guide_EN_11092018.pdf

Gain Compensation relates only to using the NSB stage boxes.
0 votes
answered Mar 5 by pauldiem (1,850 points)

Thank you danielsievert for your insights. We did some testing and it operates exactly as you say.

With Preamp Permission set to All on both mixers, both mixers have control over the preamp inputs (and the 48V setting BTW). Restoring a scene on either mixer restores the preamp (and 48V) settings on all channels including the channels that come in on the remote mixer over the network.

With Preamp Permissions set to Studiolive 32 on both mixers, both mixers have digital gain and neither mixer has preamp gain. I guess I'll make a feature request.

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answered Mar 6 by danielsievert (10,380 points)
You're welcome Paul!

I must also correct myself; as Jonny very rightly pointed out, everywhere I mentioned "Gain Comp", please replace with "Digital Gain".  I was referring to the +/- 20dB digital gain control that replaces the preamp gain control under certain AVB routing conditions.
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