Questions & Answers

Add an option for quantizing from beginning of transient rather than end

+95 votes
1,992 views
asked Aug 15, 2016 in Studio One Feature Requests by scmrecordings (1,520 points)
Hi, new user from Sonar Platinum and Pro Tools here.  Studio One generally seems awesome but there are a few things, coming from these other DAWs, that seem like huge deficiencies.  One of them is the way Audio Bend markers are placed.

As it is now, when you quantize an audio file, it uses the Audio Bend markers (which are placed late to protect transients I guess) rather than the beginning of the transients.  This makes it so that when you quantize a track, everything is early (and not by a consistent amount).  This doesn't make any sense when you need a 100% quantized track.  When you Split at Bend Markers, it splits the audio in exactly the right spot so it's clear that this is possible.  From a few google searches, it seems like people have been asking about this for years.

My question is why not just add the Audio Bend marker at the beginning of the transient and then leave the highlighted area after it?

My follow up is, if this is not possible, it would save everyone using quantize and Audio Bend a huge amount of time if we were given the option to quantize from the beginning of the Audio Bend transient.  I can't speak for everyone, but it would save me hours per song.

17 Answers

+13 votes
answered Aug 22, 2016 by AlexTinsley (917,400 points)
selected Dec 11, 2016 by ghasenbeck
 
Best answer

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+4 votes
answered Nov 24, 2016 by Scoox (15,640 points)
edited Nov 24, 2016 by Scoox

I may be wrong but I think you are mistaken. I've just checked what you describe here and read the relevant section in the user manual:

If Bend Markers have been inserted as the result of transient detection, a very short, highlighted range—visible if zoomed in far enough—precedes the Bend Marker. This range represents the entirety of what has been detected as a transient, and it is important when Studio One quantizes audio based on Bend Markers.

The far left of the highlighted range IS the start of the transient, and if you grab the highlighted range with the bend tool, like I did in the following animated screen capture, you see that stretching happens to the left and right of the start of the transient, not to the left and right of the displayed bend marker.

On the animation you can see how the waveform changes red when bent to the right, and you can see clearly that the red color includes the highlighted transient range, to the left of the bend marker.

I must admit the way transient bend markers appear at the end of the transient range rather than at the start (left) can be confusing, so my request to Presonus devs would be to place transient bend markers precisely on the start of the transient range, which I think most people would find more intuitive.

Cheers

+14 votes
answered Sep 5, 2017 by mrjshyne (1,980 points)
I need this option ASAP. This the only reason i don't use Studio one full time because of the transient detection/quantizing Audio design. Pro tools and Logic places the transient at the beginning, making it a quick and simple process to quantize audio whether it is Piano or organic drum material. I would play a 16th note piano line and when I quantize it the notes be starting to early because of the way Studio One quantizes Audio, I I could just have the Option to have the Marker be at the actual beginning of the transient that would be great, and then the way Studio One quantizes now could be for a "Time Stretch Mode or something".
+10 votes
answered May 28, 2018 by robertgray3 (41,560 points)
edited May 30, 2018 by robertgray3

For clarification: the people asking for this feature are concerned about quantizing, not timestretching. I don't really think there's anything wrong with how the timestretching handles transients, just where they quantize to. See the latest discussion here: https://forums.presonus.com/viewtopic.php?f=151&t=30445

My two cents: keep the system where the transient range is preserved, but add an option to shift the bend marker position to one of three places - the START (as said in the FR) of the range, the END or PEAK of the range (as in the current behavior), or a PERCENTAGE of the range (0% for the beginning, 50% for the middle, 100% for the end)

The idea being that for busy percussive material “Start” allows you to quantize from the very beginning of the transient range the way that you would with a MIDI-triggered sampler, and “End/Peak” allows the current behavior which is preferable for vocal and instrumental material. Then for experimenting with timing you can use the PERCENTAGE.

Call it something spiffy like "Transient Timing" :D

+15 votes
answered May 29, 2018 by emeraldescape (510 points)
Been using studio for the past 4 years now and still waiting for this to be fixed as well.  I have to bring my session into Pro Tools 11 to edit my drums and then bring them back to after I’m done editing them.  This would be a life saver if Presonus would fix this where it detects the wave at the beginning of the transient.  It’s a waste of my time to edit all these here which is why I’ve had to use P11.  Looking forward to a fix.  Let’s get tons of votes for this one!
+12 votes
answered May 29, 2018 by robertgray3 (41,560 points)
edited May 30, 2018 by robertgray3
Here’s some additional background on this that can clarify the request from forum discussions on this over the last few years:

REQUEST: Add an way to adjust where autodetected transients are quantized from, ideally in the Audio Bend menu. The ideal option would be a PERCENTAGE range with the BEGINNING OF THE TRANSIENT RANGE selectable at one end (0%) and the END/PEAK OF THE TRANSIENT RANGE selectable at the other end (100%) - 100% would reflect the current behavior. Call it something sexy like "Transient Timing" if you want.

REASON FOR REQUEST: Some users want to be able to have consistency with other forms of quantization and programmed material that overwhelmingly quantize from the beginning of the “transient range” or the “sample start” if you are using programmed drums. With no automatic way to do this in the Audio Bend system, users either have to do it manually (see below) or use another program and re-import the audio. The benefit of a variable system is that the current system (which works better for some audio) can be preserved, the standard system for other DAWs can be used, and anything in between if the user wishes to "loosen" the timing as it aligns to the grid or the groove template.



For comparison, SLICED audio bend material, Studio One’s own MIDI Sequencer and Pattern Editor, Sonar, Cubase, Logic, and Melodyne all quantize the beginning of the “transient range”. Not having this option means that Audio Bend’s quantized notes will always be early by whatever the detected “transient range” amount is, relatively speaking. It may be barely noticeable with a very fast attack but the longer the attack is the earlier the notes will be in comparison. And if an engineer is performing work for someone else in another DAW, any tracks they quantize with Audio Bend will deviate from the rest of the project.

Please see this screenshot for a comparison of various acoustic hi hat hits, quantized in Audio Bend, Sonar, and Melodyne. The Audio Bend quantized hits are always early by a variable amount. Some users would prefer a way around this.

Hat tip to Niles:



Now, just to show, this the work that must be done manually to correct this. Doing this too many times is not fun at all :)

+9 votes
answered Sep 26, 2019 by marcpeiron (630 points)
I also need this option. When replacing drums withi midi instrument, the note goes far beyond from where it should be.
+12 votes
answered Nov 29, 2019 by NoiseCoalition (760 points)
edited Nov 30, 2019 by NoiseCoalition

I'm surprised that this request doesn't have more votes. After the buggy release of Cubase 10.5 I started a deep dive into S1 to see if it was a viable alternative. Even purchased it after demoing because I was liking it so much. I found this topic after realizing that my drum quantizing (via slicing) wasn't as tight as cubase or protools.  Making MIDI notes from bend markers is also totally inaccurate as a result of the bend marker being behind the beginning of the transient. I was so close to making the switch but this is definitely a deal breaker. I hope that they can add this option. 

Screenshot of S1 detecting a kick transient. I created the MIDI by dragging the transient detected event into the groove panel then dragged groove into a new track. MIDI note is placed late so the MIDI note would flam with the kick.

Screenshot of Cubase handling the same file. As you can see Cubase detects the transient at the start of the transient so the MIDI note aligns perfectly and would fire at the correct time.

+8 votes
answered Mar 17, 2020 by Fishkrakkah (600 points)
Honestly, this is completely unacceptable as a 'feature' (is it a feature or an error?).
Ive just spent an hr or two trying to use the groove map feature (APPARENTLY COMPLETELY USELESS) to layer midi drums over my kick and snare, and now I find out that Presonus has conspired to waste my time and make this impossible.

we dont need nifty new ampsims-- WE NEED BASIC FUNCTIONALITY.

For someone who only has access to one daw, I feel cheated.

Peace.
+3 votes
answered Jul 8, 2020 by frankrasmussen (970 points)
this is one of the things I miss the most from logic.
+5 votes
answered Aug 4, 2020 by vincentcool (460 points)

Please fix this bug ,it take too many time to correct the transients manually.

thx you Presonus !

+3 votes
answered Oct 29, 2020 by johannesplachetka (350 points)
Hey Guys,

I switched from Ableton to Studio one some weeks ago. I love the workflow and everything provided in your daw.

My only big problem is the quantisation/bend marker placement. Somehow all the transient are not being detected at the beginning, but at the peak of the transients. This always results in glitches, sloppy grooves and unpleasant results when quantizing and applying grooves.

It is exactly the same issue as explained in this thread.

Please Presonus consider making this transient detection behavior optional in the next update.

As long as this won't get fixed I see no way working in Studio One when producing rhythm based music like EDM/Techno/Hiphop.

Everytime I want to quantize or apply swing to a drum loop I have to export to Ableton, quantize it there and then import it back to Studio One.

This is very annoying and unpleasant in my humble opinion!

best wishes Johannes
+2 votes
answered Apr 9, 2021 by alanbranch (670 points)

Came here to post exactly the same thing, I want to make some midi drum triggers, using the groove template, I thought at first it was a bug as it's consistent, I understand the detection being at the end of the transient but this is useless for a MIDI trigger & pretty useless for adjusting drums so I wonder how it ever works.  I saw Gregor doing exactly this on a You Tube in 2019 and it didn't sound then like the drums where slamming, however if I try the same in multiple songs it always flams because of this Bug/feature, so maybe something is not working correctly?

0 votes
answered May 31, 2021 by mikesupina (4,790 points)
I agree with everything here that everyone is saying. I saw a video where someone makes this look so easy, but it's actually completely useless in every way, unless you want to move every single midi note to the transient, but you can't even tab to transient on the midi properly to see each one and move onto the next, but that's a different story altogether. Not intending to come off as snarky, but the truth is that Studio One touted being the Pro Tools killer, but it's realistically only a Cubase competitor. For the guys who want to switch fully from Pro Tools, Studio One has to step up their editing game, which I hope they really do sincerely consider.
+1 vote
answered May 31, 2021 by robertgray3 (41,560 points)

@mikesupina I agree, it is as it stands a very fluid alternative to Cubase with an excellent Console.

I don't know if I'd say they need to "step up" their editing game, since they added plenty of great features for that back in 4.5 and some in 5.0, but I think the home stretch will take revisiting a few common behaviors (like this) with a real understanding of the editing-related challenges a pro has to deal with. At first glance, this issue looks like a difference of a few ms here and there, but the reality of it is it keeps me from using Audio Bend at all.

0 votes
answered Oct 6, 2021 by juliusteodoro (140 points)
I'm trying to switch from Cakewalk to Studio One due to the other features that it has to offer. Yet, the feature to sync transients is very important for me, especially when syncing the consonants in choral music (t, k, p, s, d, etc.). The phase before the actual transient is the one getting synced, hence when I try to sync them, the consonants don't align at all.

I guess, since they are not listening for this request, I might as well stick to Cakewalk who someone, it its own way, does this job way better than a very pricey DAW.

P.S. Cakewalk is now free, and yet they have this feature.
0 votes
answered Nov 7, 2021 by alexkyrlis (670 points)
Hi. What is it with this issuse? I have to move over to Protools for this kind of editing and drum replacing.

This is an absolute must!
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