Question

Hi, new user from Sonar Platinum and Pro Tools here.  Studio One generally seems awesome but there are a few things, coming from these other DAWs, that seem like huge deficiencies.  One of them is the way Audio Bend markers are placed.

As it is now, when you quantize an audio file, it uses the Audio Bend markers (which are placed late to protect transients I guess) rather than the beginning of the transients.  This makes it so that when you quantize a track, everything is early (and not by a consistent amount).  This doesn't make any sense when you need a 100% quantized track.  When you Split at Bend Markers, it splits the audio in exactly the right spot so it's clear that this is possible.  From a few google searches, it seems like people have been asking about this for years.

My question is why not just add the Audio Bend marker at the beginning of the transient and then leave the highlighted area after it?

My follow up is, if this is not possible, it would save everyone using quantize and Audio Bend a huge amount of time if we were given the option to quantize from the beginning of the Audio Bend transient.  I can't speak for everyone, but it would save me hours per song.

Answer 1

Thank you for the feature request. 

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Answer 2

I may be wrong but I think you are mistaken. I've just checked what you describe here and read the relevant section in the user manual:

If Bend Markers have been inserted as the result of transient detection, a very short, highlighted range—visible if zoomed in far enough—precedes the Bend Marker. This range represents the entirety of what has been detected as a transient, and it is important when Studio One quantizes audio based on Bend Markers.

The far left of the highlighted range IS the start of the transient, and if you grab the highlighted range with the bend tool, like I did in the following animated screen capture, you see that stretching happens to the left and right of the start of the transient, not to the left and right of the displayed bend marker.

On the animation you can see how the waveform changes red when bent to the right, and you can see clearly that the red color includes the highlighted transient range, to the left of the bend marker.

I must admit the way transient bend markers appear at the end of the transient range rather than at the start (left) can be confusing, so my request to Presonus devs would be to place transient bend markers precisely on the start of the transient range, which I think most people would find more intuitive.

Cheers

Answer 3

I need this option ASAP. This the only reason i don't use Studio one full time because of the transient detection/quantizing Audio design. Pro tools and Logic places the transient at the beginning, making it a quick and simple process to quantize audio whether it is Piano or organic drum material. I would play a 16th note piano line and when I quantize it the notes be starting to early because of the way Studio One quantizes Audio, I I could just have the Option to have the Marker be at the actual beginning of the transient that would be great, and then the way Studio One quantizes now could be for a "Time Stretch Mode or something".

Answer 4

For clarification: the people asking for this feature are concerned about quantizing, not timestretching. I don't really think there's anything wrong with how the timestretching handles transients, just where they quantize to. See the latest discussion here: https://forums.presonus.com/viewtopic.php?f=151&t=30445

My two cents: keep the system where the transient range is preserved, but add an option to shift the bend marker position to one of three places - the START (as said in the FR) of the range, the END or PEAK of the range (as in the current behavior), or a PERCENTAGE of the range (0% for the beginning, 50% for the middle, 100% for the end)

The idea being that for busy percussive material “Start” allows you to quantize from the very beginning of the transient range the way that you would with a MIDI-triggered sampler, and “End/Peak” allows the current behavior which is preferable for vocal and instrumental material. Then for experimenting with timing you can use the PERCENTAGE.

Call it something spiffy like "Transient Timing" :D

Answer 5

Been using studio for the past 4 years now and still waiting for this to be fixed as well.  I have to bring my session into Pro Tools 11 to edit my drums and then bring them back to after I’m done editing them.  This would be a life saver if Presonus would fix this where it detects the wave at the beginning of the transient.  It’s a waste of my time to edit all these here which is why I’ve had to use P11.  Looking forward to a fix.  Let’s get tons of votes for this one!

Answer 6

Here’s some additional background on this that can clarify the request from forum discussions on this over the last few years:

REQUEST: Add an way to adjust where autodetected transients are quantized from, ideally in the Audio Bend menu. The ideal option would be a PERCENTAGE range with the BEGINNING OF THE TRANSIENT RANGE selectable at one end (0%) and the END/PEAK OF THE TRANSIENT RANGE selectable at the other end (100%) - 100% would reflect the current behavior. Call it something sexy like "Transient Timing" if you want.

REASON FOR REQUEST: Some users want to be able to have consistency with other forms of quantization and programmed material that overwhelmingly quantize from the beginning of the “transient range” or the “sample start” if you are using programmed drums. With no automatic way to do this in the Audio Bend system, users either have to do it manually (see below) or use another program and re-import the audio. The benefit of a variable system is that the current system (which works better for some audio) can be preserved, the standard system for other DAWs can be used, and anything in between if the user wishes to "loosen" the timing as it aligns to the grid or the groove template.



For comparison, SLICED audio bend material, Studio One’s own MIDI Sequencer and Pattern Editor, Sonar, Cubase, Logic, and Melodyne all quantize the beginning of the “transient range”. Not having this option means that Audio Bend’s quantized notes will always be early by whatever the detected “transient range” amount is, relatively speaking. It may be barely noticeable with a very fast attack but the longer the attack is the earlier the notes will be in comparison. And if an engineer is performing work for someone else in another DAW, any tracks they quantize with Audio Bend will deviate from the rest of the project.

Please see this screenshot for a comparison of various acoustic hi hat hits, quantized in Audio Bend, Sonar, and Melodyne. The Audio Bend quantized hits are always early by a variable amount. Some users would prefer a way around this.

Hat tip to Niles:



Now, just to show, this the work that must be done manually to correct this. Doing this too many times is not fun at all :)

Answer 7

I also need this option. When replacing drums withi midi instrument, the note goes far beyond from where it should be.

Answer 8

I'm surprised that this request doesn't have more votes. After the buggy release of Cubase 10.5 I started a deep dive into S1 to see if it was a viable alternative. Even purchased it after demoing because I was liking it so much. I found this topic after realizing that my drum quantizing (via slicing) wasn't as tight as cubase or protools.  Making MIDI notes from bend markers is also totally inaccurate as a result of the bend marker being behind the beginning of the transient. I was so close to making the switch but this is definitely a deal breaker. I hope that they can add this option. 

Screenshot of S1 detecting a kick transient. I created the MIDI by dragging the transient detected event into the groove panel then dragged groove into a new track. MIDI note is placed late so the MIDI note would flam with the kick.

Screenshot of Cubase handling the same file. As you can see Cubase detects the transient at the start of the transient so the MIDI note aligns perfectly and would fire at the correct time.

Answer 9

Honestly, this is completely unacceptable as a 'feature' (is it a feature or an error?).
Ive just spent an hr or two trying to use the groove map feature (APPARENTLY COMPLETELY USELESS) to layer midi drums over my kick and snare, and now I find out that Presonus has conspired to waste my time and make this impossible.

we dont need nifty new ampsims-- WE NEED BASIC FUNCTIONALITY.

For someone who only has access to one daw, I feel cheated.

Peace.

Answer 10

this is one of the things I miss the most from logic.

Answer 11

Please fix this bug ,it take too many time to correct the transients manually.

thx you Presonus !

Answer 12

Hey Guys,

I switched from Ableton to Studio one some weeks ago. I love the workflow and everything provided in your daw.

My only big problem is the quantisation/bend marker placement. Somehow all the transient are not being detected at the beginning, but at the peak of the transients. This always results in glitches, sloppy grooves and unpleasant results when quantizing and applying grooves.

It is exactly the same issue as explained in this thread.

Please Presonus consider making this transient detection behavior optional in the next update.

As long as this won't get fixed I see no way working in Studio One when producing rhythm based music like EDM/Techno/Hiphop.

Everytime I want to quantize or apply swing to a drum loop I have to export to Ableton, quantize it there and then import it back to Studio One.

This is very annoying and unpleasant in my humble opinion!

best wishes Johannes

Answer 13

Came here to post exactly the same thing, I want to make some midi drum triggers, using the groove template, I thought at first it was a bug as it's consistent, I understand the detection being at the end of the transient but this is useless for a MIDI trigger & pretty useless for adjusting drums so I wonder how it ever works.  I saw Gregor doing exactly this on a You Tube in 2019 and it didn't sound then like the drums where slamming, however if I try the same in multiple songs it always flams because of this Bug/feature, so maybe something is not working correctly?

Answer 14

I agree with everything here that everyone is saying. I saw a video where someone makes this look so easy, but it's actually completely useless in every way, unless you want to move every single midi note to the transient, but you can't even tab to transient on the midi properly to see each one and move onto the next, but that's a different story altogether. Not intending to come off as snarky, but the truth is that Studio One touted being the Pro Tools killer, but it's realistically only a Cubase competitor. For the guys who want to switch fully from Pro Tools, Studio One has to step up their editing game, which I hope they really do sincerely consider.

Answer 15

@mikesupina I agree, it is as it stands a very fluid alternative to Cubase with an excellent Console.

I don't know if I'd say they need to "step up" their editing game, since they added plenty of great features for that back in 4.5 and some in 5.0, but I think the home stretch will take revisiting a few common behaviors (like this) with a real understanding of the editing-related challenges a pro has to deal with. At first glance, this issue looks like a difference of a few ms here and there, but the reality of it is it keeps me from using Audio Bend at all.

Answer 16

I'm trying to switch from Cakewalk to Studio One due to the other features that it has to offer. Yet, the feature to sync transients is very important for me, especially when syncing the consonants in choral music (t, k, p, s, d, etc.). The phase before the actual transient is the one getting synced, hence when I try to sync them, the consonants don't align at all.

I guess, since they are not listening for this request, I might as well stick to Cakewalk who someone, it its own way, does this job way better than a very pricey DAW.

P.S. Cakewalk is now free, and yet they have this feature.

Answer 17

Hi. What is it with this issuse? I have to move over to Protools for this kind of editing and drum replacing.

This is an absolute must!

Answer 18

I use Studio One for producing guitar music, and the transient detection and quantising has always worked badly with strumming. The software can correctly identify where a strum starts – the shading shows that – but it frequently places the bend marker some way to the right, so that quantising rarely sounds right, and is sometimes actually worse than the original timing.

The option to automatically place markers at the start of the transient would save me literally hours of tedious manual fixing.

Answer 19

Unbelievable that we're now on version six of the software – more than six years after this request was first posted – and this serious problem still hasn't been addressed. Does anyone at PreSonus look at this board, at all?

Answer 20

Here to keep the request fresh.
This must be the one, if not THE biggest misfeature of S1.
So many people didn't switch to S1 because of this, it's unbelievable.
Would love to see this fixed.

Apparently, there is a guy who made a macro, which should fix the problem.

Answer 21

Can we expect anything fix about this in 2023? Can someone from PreSonus developer team comment on this?
Thank you in advance

Answer 22

This drives me crazy with Studio One -- I like to use the "groove" feature to create keyspikes for opening and closing gates, triggers, etc etc... and I have to either go through and manually update every bend marker prior to creating MIDI or go through and adjust every MIDI note after they're created using the original bend markers -- otherwise the MIDI notes generated are slightly in front of the transient and therefore potentially out of phase when used to trigger samples...and virtually useless as keyspikes to open gates or use with other sidechains. PLEASE address this in an update PreSonus.

Answer 23

Bumping this in 2024! Please implement this presonus!

Answer 24

Hi! For anyone having trouble with this in 2024 for Drum Replacement / Drum Triggers / Converting Audio to MIDI try this:

Analyze the audio event using the Audio Bend panel as usual. Adjust sensitivity to get it accurate.

Next, create a new instrument track.

Drag the audio event with the bend markers directly to the instrument track. Do this directly in the timeline.

It seems to acknowledge the transients and it triggers correctly for me.

I was using the bend panel, then dragging it into the groove section of the quantize panel, and then dragging to the instrument track and my triggers were delayed slightly.

I agree that this is a bit confusing and I hope S1 adds a zero crossing button, or offset slider or something to get those bend markers right on the transient.

Let me know if this helps!

Answer 25

This NEEDS to be sorted out now! this is a very stupid oversight on Presonus part, it goes against the grain with EVERY OTHER DAW! no other daw reads the transient from halfway through, it needs to be at the start. i get complaints from clients also as when i export (after having had to slip edit EVERY beat by hand due to the terrible quantization/audio markers situation in studio one) that it doesn't line up properly to their grid in pro tools, cubase,logic...any DAW! I love nearly everything about Studio One and have been using it for 10 years and really do not want to change DAWS, but this is finally kinda forcing me to change now,  i'm at the end of my tether with this (as are my clients!) and am looking into other DAW alternatives just because of this one reason. It's just not compatible when your're working with many clients that use all kinds of DAWS. Please Presonus fix this! or give us options as folks have suggested in other comments here, users have been complaining about this since 2016 and you've done NOTHING! Also, this is the one single reason that many of my colleagues that were on the cusp of converting to studio one decided not too. It just ISN'T what is expected from professionals, i pretty much always record only drums, and have had to resort to using part of my payments from clients to pay someone else on Airgigs to edit my drums PROPERLY in pro tools using beat detective before i can send them to a client and risk getting another complaint due to Studio one doing a very important function incorrectly! if it doesn't change in an update soon, or at least in version 7 when that's released, then i'm afraid i'm gonna have to leave Studio one behind, which i'd really rather NOT do!

Answer 26

I never realised that this is the reason why my drum editing takes so long